Online strength coach Susan Niebergall sits down with series host Dr. Mary Jane Minkin to talk about fitness, particularly strength training, and how it helps support women in midlife.
In this bonus episode, host Dr. Mary Jane Minkin sits down with online strength coach Susan Niebergall to talk about fitness, particularly strength training, and how it helps support women in midlife. Susan explains ways in which strength and resistance training can help improve muscle mass and bone density and why this is particularly important for women during perimenopause and menopause. She highlights her holistic approach to fitness, “our priority should be leading a functional life for as long as we can” and shares practical guidance for women to begin implementing strength training into their fitness routine, including while at-home. Dr. Minkin and Susan also chat about their own personal fitness journeys and finding confidence in the gym in midlife.
About Susan Niebergall:
Susan is a personal trainer and online strength coach with a background of over three decades in education. She shares practical guidance, tips, and demonstrations on fitness and weight training to her sizable online audience (@susanniebergallfitness) and also offers personalized coaching plans. She is also the author of Fit At Any Age: It’s Never Too Late and hosts her own podcast, Strong and Lean at Any Age. At 62 years of age, Susan is passionate about inspiring other women in midlife to get fit, often promoting her motto: “it’s never too late.”
menopause: unmuted is designed to raise awareness, encourage communication, and share information. It is not designed to provide medical advice or promote or recommend any treatment option.
Useful Links:
Susan’s Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/susanniebergallfitness/
Susan’s Website: https://susanniebergallfitness.com/
Mary Jane Minkin 00:00
It's time to unmute menopause. Hello, and welcome back to menopause: unmuted a podcast series sponsored by Pfizer. Menopause is a major transition in life with a lot of changes, many of which can be positive. I'm your host, Mary Jane Minken. I'm an obstetrician gynecologist and clinical professor at Yale University School of Medicine. And in this collection of bonus episodes, I'm talking with experts to dive into some common health concerns women experience in midlife, many of my patients have improved their menopause journey with some achievable lifestyle changes. And if you're a regular listener, you'll have heard quite a few of our fabulous women talking about the positive role that exercise plays in their lives. And you'll also have heard me talk about the importance of taking care of our bone health. Well, fitness, particularly strength training, and bone health are closely connected. And women can really help improve their wellness at midlife by thinking about the amount and type of strength building they are doing. So, to learn more about this topic, I'm delighted to be joined by today's guest, Susan Niebergall. Thanks so much for joining us, Susan.
Susan Niebergall 01:13
Thank you so much for having me. It's great to be here with you.
Mary Jane Minkin 01:16
Thanks, Susan. Please, could you tell listeners a little bit about yourself and your work with fitness?
Susan Niebergall 01:24
Sure. I am a 62-year-old online strength coach; I coach an online fitness community where we bring people together of all fitness levels, who want to get stronger, build muscle, improve their health, I come to the fitness space from an education background. I was a teacher and school counselor for over 33 years and had a passion for fitness along the way. So, I married the two careers together. And now I'm running Susan Niebergall fitness, my own entity of strength training.
Mary Jane Minkin 02:04
Thanks, Susan. I'd like to start with a general overview. I think everybody knows that some form of exercise is a good idea, no matter what age and stage of life you're in. But strength and resistance training in particular are recommended for peri and menopausal women. Why is that?
Susan Niebergall 02:23
Our priority should be leading a functional life for as long as we can. And this is where strength training comes in, because as we are aging, we are losing muscle mass and bone density, probably starting from our 30s.(1) And that kind of gets revved up during the perimenopause menopause years. And so that sounds pretty scary because this is kind of mother nature's thing. She's kind of taking the bull by the horns. And this is kind of what happens. And it does happen at a very slow rate. But it will accumulate very quickly. If we don't stay on top of it, it really starts to increase our risk of fracture if our bones are not strong. And as we get older, that's what's happening. And the great news here is that we can actually stay on top of it from any age. And that's the absolute best thing is that we can not only slow this down, but we can reverse it in so many cases.(2) And so, focusing on strength training is key. That's what's going to help improve our bone density,(3) increase our muscle mass as we get older. And that's what's going to help us lead a more functional life.
Mary Jane Minkin 03:28
Susan, that's terrific. And this is a really hot topic for healthcare professionals at the moment. And I'm really glad you brought up the issue of bone health, because a lot of our listeners, you know, we've heard us all talking on our shows about bone strength and things like that. But muscle strength is, I think, equally important, at least that's my read of it. And I'm really glad to hear your comments about that we can improve things so we can reverse things. And I'm sure we've all known someone in later life who has lost a lot of functional strength. Perhaps they're struggling to navigate stairs, that leads to a fall and before you know what they fractured a hip and face hospitalization and a long recovery.
Susan Niebergall 04:05
Yeah, 100%. I mean, I've witnessed a lot of this with my own mom, as she was getting much, much older, she did have a fall. In fact, she didn't break anything. But she fell trying to get up and out of a chair, she ended up hitting her head. So having the strength from a muscular perspective and having your bones be strong enough to hold you and you being able to move from one position to the next is critical. So, although it might be hard to think that far down the road, although for some of us it's not quite that far down the road. It is something to keep in mind. Because the stronger we are, the less likely that if we do fall, that we will potentially break a bone or get seriously hurt, you know, strength is going to help prevent a lot of that as well.
Mary Jane Minkin 04:52
You know, and you know, I think some of our listeners may have even been surprised where it a physical examination, their healthcare provider says okay, let's see how you get out of a chair. And they're like what kind of a medical test is this, but it really is a medical test. And it's very important as you brought up, just then. So, I think that's key. So, before we go on, I think it's important to dig into that connection between strength and resistance training and good bone health. I'd like to offer a little scientific explanation here. The reason we recommend strength and resistance training is because of the body's mechanism for building and repairing bone. As Susan said, our bone density starts to decline in our 30s.(1)But loading the skeleton triggers cells within the bone to respond and adapt the bone structure so that we can help combat the decline and help build bones.(3) And where we load the skeleton is important because the specific bones that we challenge are the ones that respond. So, we should be thinking about whole body workouts. Now, Susan, let's get into the practicalities, you'll have noticed that I'm talking about strength and resistance training. And that's because I don't want listeners to think this all has to be about pumping iron at the gym. Please, Susan, could you explain the kind of exercises that are particularly beneficial?
Susan Niebergall 06:14
Sure. So, I think it's [it's] really helpful if we think about weight bearing exercises in a particular context, this could be lifting weights. And this is what most people think. And that's fine. And that is actually probably a preferred way to do it. But not everybody's ready to go to the gym and start lifting a lot of weight. So you start with your own bodyweight, you know, and that could be anything from practicing sitting in a chair and standing up, that's also called a squat, you know, and a lot of times, if you hear the word squat, you're thinking, I have a big bar in my back with lots of weights and things like that, no, you can sit down in a chair and stand up. That's a squat too. You could also do push-ups, which a lot of people say I can’t do a push up from the floor, then put your hands on a wall and start with your hands elevated on a wall because you're moving less of your own weight that way. So now you can get strong there. And as you get stronger there, you lower your hands to a countertop or a table or something like that. And as you get stronger, you progressively lower your hands to pretty soon you're on the floor doing full push-ups, I think exercising like running, aerobics, tennis, I love those exercises as well. That kind of impact, we all have to be kind of careful with that. Because running, that's going to be a little harder on your joints. And for some people, especially people that may have a lot of weight to lose, running may not be the best place to start, but it could be a goal to get to, you know, maybe you start with walking. But that kind of exercise is also weight bearing. But let's draw a distinction with like swimming, swimming is a wonderful exercise for cardio health, absolutely wonderful. But it's not weight bearing. So, it's not, it's going to deliver some different results than perhaps running or specifically weight training. So, when we're talking about increasing our bone density, and muscle, weight training is really going to take center stage. And like I said earlier, you can start with body weight, you don't have to start by lifting 300 pounds off the ground. But it's all going to be about challenging your body because your body is going to get strong. And when you're after your body gets strong, you're going to want to keep getting stronger, and so then maybe you grab some weights, and you start slowly adding weight to some of your exercises, and then go from there.
Mary Jane Minkin 08:27
I'm so glad Susan to hear you say exactly what you said there. Because it validates what I've been telling my patients here because I always say swimming is great. I always say never wanted to you know discourage you from swimming. But that's not going to make your bones strong. So, I want you doing both. And you know, I say great cardio, but not, you know, not going to help your bones particularly. But I think another good thing to mention here, it's important that we mentioned that anyone who's got osteopenia or osteoporosis, or a condition that increases injury risk is going to want to focus on the lower impact range of these weight bearing exercises. And again, it's always a good idea to check with your health care provider before you start any new exercise.
Susan Niebergall 09:09
100%. And I get asked kind of medical kind of advice frequently. And my first response always is you need to get checked out by your doctor, you know, because you don't want to be getting medical advice from an online personal trainer. So, you know if you do have a specific medical condition, talk to your doctor. Kind of get the lowdown on what is good for you to do what may not be in your best interest to do and start with that because I think otherwise, you're opening yourself up to potential injuries and higher risk stuff.
Mary Jane Minkin 09:43
Yeah, Susan, I know we've talked a little bit about this. Can you comment on how to find somebody who's a good trainer for you? Things you might want to look at and how they act or recommend, or things of that nature might be helpful to our listeners.
Susan Niebergall09:58
You know, I feel like getting an in-person trainer is the place to start. And this is where I recommend everyone newer to strength training, start just to have that person watching you and guiding you in person to make sure you're doing exercises safely and effectively for your goals. And so, if you're at a gym, you're like, I don't know who to work with, the one thing I recommend is spend some time just going to your gym, maybe get on the treadmill, the elliptical, whatever you'd like to do. And just observe, I used to do this all the time, observe the trainers and how they actually work with people. Are they attentive? Are they helping correct? Do you see interaction between the two. And let's be clear here. Sometimes you [you] pick somebody and you know what it's not, it's not working out, it's more than okay, to go to the management say, you know, I'd like to try another trainer or something. We're not just gelling, and it's nothing personal on the trainer, this happens all the time. But I also would urge somebody give it more than one shot, you know, don't kind of make a complete decision after just one training session, give that person a couple training sessions for them to get to know you, and you get to know them. And then also, when you start working with somebody be very specific on what your goals are. So, I think observing, and then asking a lot of questions and giving somebody a chance to get to know you, I think is the way to do that.
Mary Jane Minkin 11:22
Thank you, Susan. So, we've established how bone health can be fostered by weight bearing exercise. Now I'd like to ask you about some specifics for listeners to consider. Let's think about someone who has never done any strength work. Where should they start?
Susan Niebergall 11:39
Just like we were talking about, I would start by hiring that in person trainer. And then doing a little background research. Like we were just talking about, you know, gyms have group classes, too. I like group classes. But I also want to caution people that group classes are a great way to get yourself in the gym, you have an appointment, if the community aspect is phenomenal in there. Is that the same as going into the weight section and lifting? Not exactly, no. But it is definitely a great starting point. That's how I got started. As a matter of fact, I went to classes, I think a lot can be done at home on your own for free, or even online. Like you could go to YouTube and find all kinds of workouts or even on Instagram, or Facebook or wherever. But I think that's harder. To be perfectly honest, I think that starting on your own, by yourself, in middle age, is something that's really tough to do. For most people, I think starting in person is the best place to start. It'll be less frustrating, you'll have an appointment to keep your get into a habit, it'll be building a lot of skills along the way. You can do weightlifting at home, too, by the way, and, you know, weight doesn't always have to look like a dumbbell. And I think that's really important. When we said, well, I don't have any weight at home. No, we all have weight in our house, it just doesn't always look like a dumbbell. Like you could do a detergent bottle, you know, these big jugs of detergent are heavy, you could hold one of those and do your squats, you know, and you could practice where you hold it, you hold it a little higher. Now my shoulders are getting tired too. You know, I mean, there's a lot of ways you can play with that. And you know, I think also starting this and maybe even starting in person is a great way to learn safety, and effectiveness of the exercise you're doing. I know a lot of people get worried about getting hurt, but it can ease our mind when we have somebody watching us and help guide us right there. Instead of wondering, Am I doing this right? This doesn't feel right, what's wrong, and then we get frustrated. And then we quit. You know, and I think that's the thing people quit, because they haven't had enough guidance yet along the way. And I'll say especially for people our age, because I feel like learning new skills as we get older is harder as well. And this is a skill, you know, learning how to lift weight correctly, to benefit you know, our bones or muscles is a skill.
Mary Jane Minkin 14:27
That's terrific, Susan, thanks again so much for that information. And I know you've given me some advice about how to find out people online for example, who may not be given out the best advice can you tell our listeners about some of the things you would have them be wary of if you hear somebody saying this or that things that might not be so helpful?
Susan Niebergall 14:47
Yeah, for sure. Real red flags would be if someone says oh, you can lose you know, 20 pounds in two weeks or something that sounds too good to be true is, I mean especially in this industry, because if you want to see results and be able to maintain results, it's not about quick, quick fixes, detoxes cleanse, 24 hours, I'm going to be a new person, any of that I can't build abs in three days, you know, it doesn't, it doesn't work that way. If somebody is trying to sell you something, hey, buy my shake, buy my products, whatever, join this crew, but you have to join, you have to buy the food, you have to buy the drink, you have to buy the... stay clear of all that because you don't have to do any of that. The answer is very, it's not sexy at all it is [is] the hard work, dedication, consistency, patience, over time, no one's going to buy that. I mean, you know, I mean, that doesn't sound it doesn't sound as cool. And a good way to remember that is unsustainable methods, meaning if you're doing something that you cannot sustain for any length of time, that's going to equal unsustainable results. You know, and I think that's kind of the bottom line.
Mary Jane Minkin 15:57
Excellent information. Thanks, Susan.
You're listening to a strong menopause, a bonus episode to accompany season three of menopause: unmuted. I'm your host, Mary Jane Minken. And today I'm joined by certified personal trainer and strength coach, Susan Niebergall. You can listen to all our previous episodes and find more information at menopauseunmuted.com. Susan, in this last section of the podcast, I'd like to talk with you about attitudes to exercise, body image and self-confidence. Could you talk about your own journey with exercise?
Susan Niebergall 16:37
Sure, regarding strength training, I thought the more I strength train, the better. You know, if I worked out four days a week, boy six must be even better. And with strength training, more is not better, better is better. You know, three to four days of strength training is plenty to get any kind of results you want. As long as on those three to four days, you are really working hard, you're pushing yourself, it's not easy. Strength training is not supposed to tickle, it's supposed to be challenging, and even borderline uncomfortable. So, when I talk about being uncomfortable, that's very different from pain, pain would be more of a sharp sensation, that obviously hurts and your body, your body's reaction to it is like oh stop, I think we all have had that kind of pain, that's something that you don't want to push through. That is an indicator that something's not right, maybe we need to take a different variation, do a different exercise, being uncomfortable is I am pushing so hard to get this weight up and your muscles are actually burning, you may feel a little bit of a burning sensation. I kind of liked that, but some people think that's not real comfortable. So, to each his own on that. But the difference there is there's no sharp pain involved, I'm having to put a lot of effort to move the weight versus Ouch! there's a sharp pain, I need to put them down. And I just thought, okay, if I'm pushing myself hard four days a week, let me push myself hard six or seven days a week. And then what happens is my sleep starts going by the wayside. I start feeling terrible. I was getting injured all the time, because I never allowed my body to rest and recover. So I think the thing that I learned and really started hammering home in my mid 50s was the importance of first of all, being honest about my nutrition, what I was doing what I wasn't doing, understanding how the scale fluctuates, I was educating myself and I had a coach who educated me on all of this, and then dial back my strength training and make those three, three or four days I was strength training more effective. And I'll tell you what, that's where everything changed.
Mary Jane Minkin 19:41
That's very interesting. And indeed, I think what you're emphasizing partially is the issue of thinking about the value of failure and how it can build confidence. You went from having a problem to say this isn't working. And then you revise things and you've got the confidence to continue. I think that's terrific.
Susan Niebergall 19:57
Oh 100% I You know, in through this journey I have failed numerous times. And I was that person that hated to fail. And I tried always [always] to set myself up to not fail. And as I went on, and on and on, I started figuring out, wait a minute. First of all, you can't ever do that, that that the stress of trying to set yourself up for that for your life is outrageous. But failing, not being successful at something, if you can take the emotion out of that and look at things that you can take away from that and get better as a result of that. That's life changing.
Mary Jane Minkin 20:35
I mean, my own experience is that when I started out as a kid, I was actively discouraged from doing exercising, because I was one supposed to be the studious young lady and studious young ladies didn't do exercise. I came to medical school in terrible shape, basically. And then I started learning things about you know, this exercise stuff is pretty good for you. And I started getting into aerobic exercise. And I started doing my you know, running and swimming and all sorts of fabulous stuff like getting it was terrific. And I had a wonderful time doing it. But I must confess, I sort of looked askance at some of the people doing the strength training at the gyms and stuff. And I was like that that's not for me. And it really wasn't until my late 50s, that I started looking at strength training. And I was told we shouldn't be condemning it if you don't try it. And I said, Yeah, that's true. So anyway, and the problem is, and I can warn people about this, is that once I started, I started working out with an excellent trainer at my gym, who's really, really terrific, that helped really change my life. And I became an addict. That's tough. But it really, really improved my life and doing the strength training, and I got to a reasonable regime. But what I tell my patients regularly is I just don't think about things, I do things. And what will happen is if I haven't gotten to the gym to do my strength training, for several days, I don't consciously go into the gym and say, Oh, I'm going to do my strength training regime, and I'm going to feel better. But what happens is I do my strength training regime, I get to the end that I say, Oh, I really feel better than I say to myself, well, ding-dong, you haven't been to the gym for four days. That's why all of a sudden, you're feeling good. So, it really reinforces how important it is to be doing things on a regular basis.
Susan Niebergall 22:18
100%
Mary Jane Minkin 22:21
It feels like society's fitness and beauty standards are changing. What do you see Susan, in the younger generations of women these days?
Susan Niebergall 22:30
You know, I feel like there's a lot of great things happening. Because back when we were younger, I don't think we saw women working on building strength and muscle like we see now, which is really great. Back then I remember skinny was the thing, everyone wanted to be skinny. And it was that word. I remember holding that word in high esteem. That was a goal. I wanted to be skinny, you know, and now it's strong. And the process of doing that is incredibly empowering to women. I feel like it's building confidence, like you were saying, and then, you know, with our generation, I feel like there's more and more women in their 40s 50s 60s and up that are participating and are hopefully understanding that change is possible at any age. And that has been my personal message to get out there. Because to be perfectly honest, there are not a lot of women who are my age out in the fitness industry trying to promote fitness at any age. There's [there's] a bunch coming though, there's a bunch coming in 40s and 50s. So, I'm I feel like I want to blaze this trail and keep sending this message out that change is possible at any age, and it's the truth. And [and] I feel like that is the ultimate message, the ultimate gift of empowerment for anybody at any age.
Mary Jane Minkin 24:01
Well, Susan Niebergall thank you so much for joining me today. I really enjoyed our conversation and I'm sure you've inspired listeners to get moving.
Susan Niebergall 24:10
Thank you so much for having me. It was great to be here, and we had such a great conversation. I enjoyed it very much.
Mary Jane Minkin 24:16
Thanks to you for listening to a strong menopause. A bonus episode that's part of menopause: unmuted. I'll be back for more bonus episodes where I'll be talking to experts to bring you information about looking after your emotional wellbeing and fostering a healthy and enjoyable sex life through menopause. And do check out our last episode on nutrition. There's more information in our show notes at menopauseunmuted.com. And if you have any questions about your own menopause, talk to your health care provider that might be your OB GYN, primary care provider, nurse practitioner or midwife. There are even designated menopause practitioners that a woman can visit if she needs more information. Special thanks to the women's health team at Pfizer and to Studio Health for producing this series. Talk soon.
This podcast is provided for educational purposes only and is not intended to replace discussions with a health care provider. Please speak with your health care provider regarding any health questions.
The opinions expressed in this podcast are the opinions of the individuals recorded, and not necessarily opinions endorsed by Pfizer.
The health care practitioners appearing in this episode of Menopause Unmuted have been compensated by Pfizer
This podcast is only intended for residents of the United States.
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1. NHS. Osteoporosis: Causes. [Online] [Cited: September 27, 2022.] https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/osteoporosis/causes/.
2. Atapattu, Piyusha Milani Milani, et al. Menopause and Exercise: Linking Pathophysiology to Effects. ARCHIVES OF MEDICINE. 2015, Vol. Special Edition.
3. Hong, A Ram and Kim, Sang Wan. Effects of Resistance Exercise on Bone Health. Endocronology and Metabolism. 33 2018, pp. 435-444.