Darlene and Ben share their unconventional love story, which was challenged and strengthened by Darlene’s menopause experience. Although Ben is 20 years younger than Darlene, he has proven to be an exemplary partner and source of support for Darlene as she struggled with menopause symptoms. The two have since become advocates to help educate and bring awareness to support those going through menopause in the workplace.
In this episode, Darlene and Ben share their unconventional love story, which was challenged and strengthened by Darlene’s menopause experience. Although Ben is 20 years younger than Darlene, he has proven to be an exemplary partner and source of support for Darlene as she struggled with menopause symptoms. In addition to the broader impact of menopause symptoms on her daily life, Darlene also shares how her symptoms affected her work and how she felt unsupported in her workplace. This experience eventually led her to take time off work, however, it also inspired her to become an advocate to help educate, bring awareness, and support others going through menopause in the workplace. Ben has extended his committed support for Darlene by joining her in these advocacy efforts. The couple also talks about their shared passion for fitness and powerlifting, which has brought joy and confidence to Darlene in her midlife years.
Content warning: this episode mentions the topic of suicidal ideation.
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Host: Mary Jane Minkin
Producer: Freya Hellier for Studio Health
MJM
It’s time to unmute menopause.
Hello and thanks for joining me for another episode of menopause: unmuted - the podcast for anyone interested in better understanding menopause, whether you’re going through it yourself, or you want to support someone you care about - you’re always welcome here.
I’m your host Mary Jane Minkin, as an OBGYN and clinical professor at Yale University School of Medicine, I spend a lot of time listening to women, their partners and loved ones tell their menopause stories.
Although every woman’s menopause journey is unique, there are a few common challenges that I hear women bring up time and time again. If you’ve been listening to this podcast for a while, you’ll know that lots of women wish that they knew more about what to expect before hitting menopause. And many people still struggle to find comfortable ways to talk about menopause with the people around them – whether they are romantic partners, friends, kids, or colleagues.
Today’s couple, Darlene and Ben, have been working hard to improve both their knowledge and communication around menopause, with great success. Menopause can put romantic relationships under stress for all sorts of reasons, and for Darlene and Ben, menopause came along while they were still establishing the foundations of a pretty new relationship.
But they have risen to those challenges with an open mind, commitment, and lots of love – and they’ve seen the results at home, at work and in the gym!
Before we begin, I want to let listeners know that this episode deals with suicidal thoughts.
So, let’s get start with an introduction, from Darlene.
Darlene
Hi, I'm Darlene. I'm a proud mom of two children, Andrew and Sarah, both adults now, unbelievably. I am divorced and met my wonderful partner, Ben, almost five years ago now. I work for the government, and I've been in menopause for about three to four years I would say, and I've had quite a difficult time with it, and that's why we're here to talk about our story, because Ben has been a wonderful supportive partner throughout this journey. And I'm also a powerlifter. I started that at 53 years old, and I'm 55 now, so loving every minute of it.
Ben
Hi, I'm Ben. I'm 34 I'm a federal public servant as well. I'm met Darlene almost five years ago, as she said, and since last September, I became a supporter and great promoter and enthusiast of the group My Menopause at Work, which brought us here too, which is all about peer support and resources and people helping each other out going through this difficult time. Because the one thing I have learned from all this is there is not much out there. A lot of people are alone in this, and they don't know where to go to understand what's going on. And a lot of times things are brushed off as being part of other conditions that pre-existed before perimenopause.
Darlene
I would say like there's nothing very usual about our relationship. It's rather unconventional because we met just before the pandemic started, so there was no courtship involved. It was straight out of the gate, and shortly thereafter, you were going to experience one hell of a tough time that is called perimenopause, which I had never even heard of the term. I thought the whole thing was just menopause. Didn't know much about it at all. You know, thought it was going to be a few hot flashes and that's it. I would just get on with life.
But lo and behold, I think after learning about this, this phase of our life, it's taught me so much, and one of those things is that people don't know what's happening, and so I think it's crucial that women really learn about what this is all about, and so that they can empower themselves to [to] cope better. And when you have someone who's in your corner, it makes things a heck of a lot better. And I'm just so grateful that that I met Ben when I did, because I think he just, he came into my life at the most perfect time. And I think that's what's so wonderful about our relationship, is that it was very unexpected. You know it was um, I’m gonna be very frank, like, I hope that I can just say that we met for a quickie, you know, one night stand. But the beauty of it is that that's all we expected, and then here we are, four and a half years later, in love with one another, supporting one another through thick and thin, like it was a hell of a time that we went through. It was very difficult for me when I was in the thick of things and having to take off work, even because of my symptoms. It was so wonderful to have this person in my life who truly cared, and even though I gave him plenty of opportunities to just abandon ship.
Ben
Not just opportunities. I was told actively, take the door, get out.
Darlene
Well, I wouldn't say it like that but, you know I said, you know, this is not what you signed up for, and you're welcome to just say goodbye. You know, like this is too much, and so I gave you that, that free pass, I think one- more than once, because I don't even know if I would have tolerated me. That's how bad it was at one point. I mean, I didn't even recognize myself because of the-
Ben
It was a major roller coaster.
Darlene
Yeah, it was really tough, really tough.
Ben
She could have three, four days in a row where she felt great and then not feel good for a couple weeks. It went up and down like that for at least two and a half years, I would say. Well, it happened, it happened gradually until we hit the various points where it's like, okay, there's something going on here, rather than just being all at once. The great thing that came out of it, I think, is it allowed us to build a very solid foundation like, yes, perimenopause is this tumultuous time where you're facing all sorts of different challenges and issues and massive lists of symptoms. But I would say it allowed us to, like it really put a relationship to the test. And you know that you actually love a person, if you're if you're there. If you're just like, oh, I'm washing my hands clean of this, bye-bye and walking out. And then, you know it's, no, I mean to us, to me, that's the foundation of a relationship, is being there for each other, and this has helped lay it and build a solid one.
Darlene
I think the mood was the biggest one, one of the biggest ones. Lack of sleep too. I had insomnia really badly. You know, when you lack sleep, it's so difficult to cope with anything really, much less this, this huge change that I was going through. I could see it in myself too. It was very scary to say, like I don't even recognize myself anymore. And I said, I have to do something. I have to figure out how I'm going to manage this. So, I did a lot of research on my own, but then I also engaged with a nutritionist who helped me sort of change my diet and really get a good hold of how I was eating and fueling my body. I think that played a huge role in helping me sort of adjust and [and] make really big lifestyle changes, you know? So, nutrition was a big part of that, as well as physical fitness.
So, once I started going to see a personal trainer who introduced me to powerlifting. He taught me all about powerlifting because he wanted to be a competitive powerlifter himself. And he goes, do you want to just focus on the lifts instead of doing all these other things that you don't really seem to be enjoying? And I said, yes please. And then so began my [my] powerlifting journey. So that was really I would say, like a constant in my life that I needed to get me through the very difficult time when I was really struggling. So, I had that to look forward to. I would lack motivation to go sometimes, but I remember him saying to me, just show up. Just show up. And then he would adjust our workout accordingly.
So, I think those two things, you know, as well as, of course, some treatment protocol recommended by my doctor, these things, in combination with the support of Ben, made a huge difference. Once I, you know, sort of put all of those things together, it was like a puzzle, sort of coming together one piece at a time, and then I was able to return to work, and really, I would say, thrive. And so, we're doing some pretty amazing things, both together and on our own, and I think our relationship is become that much stronger through all of this. So, it's, it's pretty wonderful. Despite the fact that, you know, there's 21 and a half years difference between us, it's been shocking to me in a in a way, you know, like it's, it's a pleasant surprise though, that this man actually does love me, you know, like, because at the beginning I thought in the back of my mind, I always thought to myself, there was that sort of, that seed of doubt, like, okay, is this for real? Like, does this man this, this young man, really love me, truly love me, and I can sit here today and say, without a doubt, yes, he does, and it's wonderful.
MJM
Darlene and Ben’s story has a wonderful combination of determined love, pragmatism, and a dash of putting trust into fate.
If you’re in a relationship at midlife, there’s a good chance you’re having to adapt to some changes, whether you’ve been together for 6 months or 30 years.
Perhaps you’re dealing with an empty nest and reevaluating family life; you might be navigating caring responsibilities for an elderly family member; one or both of you might be experiencing changes to your sexual function; and menopause might leave you wondering if you even recognize yourself anymore.
But carving out time to talk, listen, and connect can be so nourishing to a relationship, especially when we truly understand our loved one’s perspectives.
I’m very glad that Darlene recognized some key factors for improving how she was feeling… Lack of sleep can impact quality of life[1]– if you’re feeling exhausted, and struggling to get consistent sleep, please do speak with your healthcare provider.
Exercise can help to improve sleep quality[2] but it’s also a useful way of dealing with stress, and it can be very good for improving body image.[3]
In Darlene’s case, she has found a lot of joy and confidence from powerlifting, which is a competitive style of weightlifting. I commend her for taking on this challenge, as it does not sound easy!
Like loss of bone density, loss of muscle mass is common as women age, reach menopause and can increase the risk of falls and fractures.[4] Resistance exercise can help to improve both the muscle and bone mass in both postmenopausal women and middle-aged men.[4] Remember that it takes a dedicated training and food plan for women to build a lot of visible muscle, so don’t let concerns about becoming bulky put you off exercise.[5] I go into a lot of detail about this in the Strong Menopause bonus episode, which you can find on the show’s feed.
Let’s get back to Darlene and Ben, to listen to them talk about support.
Darlene
So as a government employee, my job is primarily as a knowledge worker, is working a lot on the computer, reading and writing. And when my symptoms were at their worst, I was having a lot of difficulty meeting expectations. So, you know, being able to read, you know, sometimes lengthy documents, or being able to write. You know, I love to write, and I was really struggling with that, being able to focus and concentrate. I was having a hard time doing that, so I realized that I needed to have a discussion with my manager. And at the time, I was reporting to a male boss, and my team was composed primarily, there was roughly 20 of us on the team, and I was the oldest one, and I felt like I couldn't really talk to any of my colleagues about what I was going through, unfortunately. And so I, you know, sort of worked myself up to have this conversation that I, yeah, I really didn't know what to expect, to be honest, how he was going to react, but I knew it was, you know, an uncomfortable discussion, but I knew that I needed to reach out and at least let him know what was going on. So, when I had the conversation with him, it really didn't last long. I told him what [what] I was experiencing, and he said to me, Darlene, I'm not going to go through this, so I really don't know how to support you, and I don't know how to help.
So, I left that conversation feeling very much alone, like there was no support, and I felt like that was really the tipping point. I couldn't stay at work, so I had a conversation with my doctor, and she recommended that I go off on medical leave. And I was reluctant to do that, but I thought, you know what? This is going to be a time that I will take just for me to focus on me, because most of my life I've spent taking care of others, you know? And at this point it was, it was tough too because I felt very much alone, except for, for Ben, who was the opposite of my boss. You know, he really was there for me. But I think it's important for people to know that it's not just hot flashes. I've been a mental health advocate for a long time, and perimenopause was a time where I had those suicidal thoughts again. I hadn't had them for years. I just didn't know how to find my way out of this dark place I seem to find myself in. But then I remembered that I have people in my life who love me and my mantra in life is, never give up. Those three words have gotten me through so much, and I remember thinking to myself, Darlene, you can't give up now. You've got to keep going. You're going to figure this out, and Ben's going to help you. He's going to be there to support you. You don't have to be alone. And I think that was the lowest point on this journey, and today I feel like I've [I've] made it through. I didn't give up, and I feel much, much stronger and better than I've ever felt in a long, long time. And I [I] attribute that to both my own strength, as well as the strength of our relationship. It's a real testament to what you can go through as an individual, but then as a couple, it's quite powerful.
Ben
Well, from my perspective, the feeling of helplessness and not being able to help deal with what Darlene is going through directly, that sucks. It's one of the worst feelings in the world, because you see somebody you love, not being themselves, not feeling great, having the worst time of her life, trying to find different routes and avenues to get answers, but not getting them. And, from my side of things, what I could actually do for support is doing little things around the house and take that off her plate and put it on mine, so this way she'd had more manageable portions of things to deal with, like I took over all the cooking 100%, the dishes, laundry, doing all little things when she asks me to do them, just to make it easier on her, because having to think of all that and do all that when you're already struggling on your day to day, adding on more responsibilities just does not help. So, any responsibility I could grab off her plate and shuffle over to mine, that's what I did. I just did it because she'd be at the kitchen trying to do dishes, and I'd have to grab her by the hand, bring her to the recliner and sit her down, because she just would not stay out of the kitchen.
Darlene
You had to physically remove me from it.
Ben
I had to assert myself. I had to be very assertive in order to take over those roles. Because otherwise it would not have happened. Like I would see her struggle with her laundry, and she's like, oh, no, I got this. I'm like, no, you don't, give me your hand. And then I would walk her downstairs, put in a recliner and get her laundry done.
She did not like it. She did not like it. Oh, my God.
Darlene
I was not happy. I was reluctant. Let's just put it that way. Yeah, I was reluctant to give up those things, and I think because they sort of made me feel like I had some control over the situation, you know, just by doing these menial tasks. But, wow, it's a wonderful thing when you can give that up and say, hey, you do it then. I’ve just come, I've come full circle where I just I sit my butt on my recliner now, yeah.
MJM
Not every woman will struggle with her mental health during menopause, but it is something that midlife women should be aware of.
If you’re dealing with low mood or depression, especially thoughts of self-harm, please do speak with a health care professional. And I’d encourage you to share how you’re feeling with someone you trust and reach for support when you’re feeling down.
We’ve included some helpful links in the show notes, although if you’re in need of immediate support you can call, text, or chat the Suicide & Crisis Lifeline at 988 – which is free, confidential, and available 24 hours a day, year-round.
Feeling depressed is not a sign of failure or weakness, it can happen to anyone, and it’s very likely that you know someone experiencing depression without even knowing about it. Please try not to let stigma about mental health stop you from seeking help.
It’s disappointing that Darlene’s boss couldn’t find ways to be more supportive when she opened up, but I’m glad she refused to accept that and sought help from her doctor who worked on a treatment plan with Darlene.
And kudos to Ben for taking such a practical approach to providing support. It can be so discouraging to realize that you can’t make your partner feel any better – but his determination to show his care was extremely helpful to Darlene.
If you’re not fortunate enough to receive this kind of support, is there something that you can do to care for yourself? Perhaps it’s about having a frank conversation with a senior colleague, or maybe you need to renegotiate some boundaries to give yourself more time to rest and destress?
I know it can sometimes be hard to receive help and cut yourself some slack, but as Darlene observes, it could be well worth it.
This is menopause: unmuted where we listen to real menopause stories.
I’m your host Mary Jane Minkin and if you’d like to listen to other women’s stories about their menopause experiences, visit menopauseunmuted.com That’s also where you can get more information about menopause.
Though Darlene had a bad experience when she tried to get support at work, she was determined to change that for others, let’s hear how she managed that
Darlene
So, when I returned to work last June, I had been thinking about it when I was off. How could I make a difference in the workplace? What could I do so that other people going through the same thing wouldn't have the same feelings of being alone that I did. And so, I had been thinking about starting a group while I was away, and when I returned to work, I sought the permission of my senior management and the director, thought, wow, this is such a great idea. I fully support it. So, she gave me permission to work on it, on my own time. And more than that, she wanted to be involved. So, she's actually the executive sponsor of the group that I started called My Menopause at Work. And it's been something that I've developed a real passion for, and that I've become very much involved in, is trying to create a space, so this is a virtual space, that is available and open, our group is very inclusive, so folks who identify as women are welcome to join as well as men. And Ben was one of the first well, he was the first man to join the group, and the second member of the group after me. And we've participated in a couple of conferences where we've had a kiosk set up, and he's been there at the table with me promoting the group, so taking time off, and his boss is also very supportive of his efforts as well. And we've had people come up to us and actually say, you’re a man, so what are you doing here? This is about menopause, and he very matter of factly, says that, yes, this is Darlene. She's not just a colleague in the federal public service, but she's my life partner, and I'm here to support her as well as promote men joining the group, because men are [are] our partners, they're our bosses, you know, and we need them on board with us, because there was a survey done by the Menopause Foundation of Canada that found that most women are afraid of disclosing the fact that they're going through menopause at work,[6] and afraid to have that conversation with their boss, just like I was, you know. So, we need our men to be very supportive allies and there for us when we need them the most, because we can get through pretty much anything if we have somebody there for us.
Ben
It's been very positive. I mean, the workplace is everybody. It impacts everybody. If we're able to get people to band together, come together, group together, and understand, have a common understanding of what they're going through. A person that's having a tough time, who sees another person that had a tough time and pulled through, that's encouraging. Also, from a workforce perspective, knowledge is power. As a manager, you're there to support your staff in the sense that if they're facing an issue, you can guide them to a resource. I'm not going to say oh, you're dealing with such and such an issue, and I can give you a medical diagnosis. No, that's not your job as a manager. But if you're able to say, hey, I think this place may be good for you, you can have a chat with people that are going through a similar thing. It may help you have, help you in your conversations with your medical professionals to come up with a treatment plan or to try and pin down exactly what's causing this for you. Having that compassion and that understanding goes a long way. Instead of just dismissing an employee, you're able to better support them, adjust things and so forth.
Okay, so menopause being taboo, it's not as much a taboo as much as it is people not wanting to talk about it or wanting to avoid it entirely. Something that is a natural part of life should not be avoided. It should not be swept under the rug. We have to have uncomfortable conversations. This is how we grow as people. This is how we grow as individuals. It's how we grow as communities. If we just take the uncomfortable stuff and toss it to the side, it'll still be a problem. You can if you have a hole in a wall and it's a structural issue and you just put duct tape over it, the issue is still there. So, for me, the whole, the whole, oh, it's taboo. It's taboo. Yeah, great. Let's sit down. Let's sit down and grab a coffee and talk about it. What makes it taboo? That's to me, that's something I have not been able to wrap my brain around, is what makes this subject so taboo and why people don't want to talk about it. You'll have people, they'll be in there, they'll be in their perimenopause silos, thinking, oh, I'm alone in this. This never happened before. And then another person can say, oh, hey, here's what's going on. Have a discussion with your doctor. They'll be able to help you based on your situation. We gotta just stop calling things taboo and just have the conversations. It's just that's what it is. We're stigmatizing things that that are, it's hard enough. We don't need to [to] tie more stigma to it. Just let people have these conversations. Be open about it, talk about it, and prepare the future generations to hey, you're at least you're not being blindsided, so here's what can happen.
Music - sting
Darlene
What I would say to someone who's approaching perimenopause is, don't give up. You may have a very hard time, like I did, or you may have an easier time, but there's always someone out there who's willing to help seek out information. You know, there are resources, credible resources and organizations, and they give a lot of good advice, but I would say, the more that we talk about it, just talk about it openly, without shame or stigma, the easier this will be for people like my daughter, you know, who eventually will go through something similar.
Ben
Me, what I would say to- to folks, I will say it to partners and the ones that are not going through perimenopause and menopause is be patient. Don't take it personally. Don't be reactive. Even though you want to be, you have to understand that the person's not being themselves. Take a deep breath, let it go, and it always comes back to, oh my god, I'm so sorry, I was so mean to you. You just- don't be reactive if, if you see a fire, don't go toss a jerry can in it. Just don't even try to put water. Just let it fizzle out. That that is my advice. All we need is just a little bit of patience. That's one thing I want to add. Yes, communication. Yes. Talk to each other. Talk to your- so with perimenopause and menopause, communicate to your partner. Let them know what you're going through. Talk to each other. If you're just siloed and just sitting by yourself and not discussing it, it will cause friction, and it's going to cause it'll do more harm than good to in a relationship, you have to have these honest and open discussions and say, hey, my thoughts are all over the place. My mood's all over the place. Just let me be, back off and it'll go a long way.
MJM
Great advice there from Ben and Darlene.
I really admire Darlene’s determination not to give up and keep looking for support to benefit not only herself but other people. And what a wonderful partner she has in Ben who has been so proactive in lightening her load when she most needed it.
And while men won’t go through menopause, as partners, friends and family members, they certainly do experience it alongside us, and taking a team approach to living well through menopause has deepened Darlene and Ben’s connection. I want to sincerely thank them both for sharing their stories and wish them all the best.
I’m Mary Jane Minkin, and thanks for listening – if you enjoy this podcast, I really would appreciate it if you could share it with a friend.
I’m working on some bonus episodes to continue our conversations about menopause and relationships, which will pop up in this feed soon. But in the meantime, you can check out the show notes of this episode. That’s also where you can find more information on how to get in touch to share your own menopause story.
Before I go, I’d just like to say: don’t suffer in silence. Don’t worry about speaking up about your menopause.
Women should be able to discuss menopause with their health care providers. A woman can speak out about menopause with her OB/GYN, primary care provider, or nurse practitioner. There are even designated menopause practitioners that a woman can visit.
Special thanks to the Women's Health team at Pfizer and to Studio Health for producing this series.
Talk soon.
[Disclaimer]
This podcast is provided for educational purposes only and is not intended to replace discussions with a healthcare provider. Please speak with your healthcare provider regarding any health questions. The opinions expressed in this podcast are the opinions of the individuals recorded, and not necessarily opinions endorsed by Pfizer. The guests in this podcast are participating voluntarily and have not been compensated for their appearance. The host has been compensated by Pfizer. The podcast is only intended for residents of the United States.
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References