Sisters Suzanne and Becky reflect on their menopause journeys. They discuss attitudes toward menopause across generations, changes to their careers during midlife, and a newfound sense of freedom they have both discovered in this life stage.
This episode features sisters Suzanne and Becky, as they reflect on their menopause journeys. Although they have similar outlooks on this stage of life, Suzanne entered perimenopause after undergoing surgery to manage symptoms due to uterine fibroids. In the episode, Becky and Suzanne recount their mother’s avoidant approach to menopause and more broadly, on differing attitudes to menopause across generations. Both sisters shared experiences of challenge and change in their working lives through midlife, and how they persevered through these times of turbulence. Their stories give an optimistic and grounded perspective on the menopause experience, with both women expressing a newfound sense of freedom they have both discovered in this life stage.
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Disclaimer: menopause: unmuted is designed to raise awareness, encourage communication, and share information. It is not designed to provide medical advice or promote or recommend any treatment option.
Episode 2, Suzanne & Becky
Dr. Mary Jane Minkin:
It’s time to unmute menopause.
Hello and thanks for joining me for another episode of menopause unmuted – the podcast that shares real life menopause stories.
Menopause can still be a taboo subject within many families, workplaces and friendships.
But menopause is also a natural part of aging, and talking and listening are so useful to bring people together and break down the barriers to understanding this important life stage.
I’m Mary Jane Minkin, I’m an OBGYN and clinical professor at Yale University School of Medicine and I’ve spent many years encouraging women to build the confidence and knowledge to take good care of their health through every stage of life’s journey.
The people who join us on that journey are so important in sharing love, support, and knowledge and for this fifth season of menopause: unmuted, we’re hearing stories of partnership, whether that’s through friendship, marriage or family.
Today, it’s all about one of the closest bonds a woman can have - sisterhood.
So, let’s meet our sisters: Suzanne and Becky. Like many of today’s midlife women, menopause was not a topic frequently discussed when their own mom went through it, and their personal circumstances are quite different. But they share so much love and common ground, I hope you’ll find their conversation poignant – and they also have some great information to share.
Let’s begin by hearing a bit more about Suzanne and Becky.
Suzanne
I'm Suzanne. I am 51 and I am the sister of Becky. I am a sustainability manager by trade, and I love to garden, and I take lots of photos.
Becky
And you're dog mom. With a brand-new puppy.
Suzanne
And I'm a dog mom. She's so cute.
Becky
Who is the cutest thing you've ever seen in your life.
Suzanne
She tried to steal her from me.
Becky
Oh, my God, I fell in love with that dog. I am Becky. I am sister to Suzanne. I am 55. I am a mom. I have five children, ranging in ages from 32 to 21 and I am a teacher of English language arts.
Becky
I remember someone had given me a book about perimenopause, and I think that's the first time I'd ever heard it. I don't remember a physician ever speaking to me about perimenopause, right? Do you?
Suzanne
No, not at all.
Becky
I don't remember ever hearing about it growing up.
Suzanne
No.
Becky
At first, I think I thought, when you hear perimenopause, it's like, oh, the short time before your cycle ends, and then it's like, and now I think we've learned that once you're in menopause and beyond, you'll still continue to have even that I thought it would be done, right? The tyranny of hormones would be over and we would be chill for the rest of our lives. No, right?
Suzanne
No. Our mom, yeah, she was very stoic. She didn’t talk about it. We would see her, like, experience a hot flash from time to time. But she just never really…
Becky
She just endures, she just persists.
Suzanne
Yeah, yeah. She just suffers in silence and…
Becky
And we do not.
Suzanne
And we do not. We're like, this is stupid.
Becky
We hate this so much. Yeah.
Suzanne
Yeah. My husband too, like, you know, you're living in the same house, and all of a sudden you're acting irrationally. [Becky: I know!] And he's like, what is your problem? And then I'm like, I don't, [Becky: Right!] I don't know.
Becky
You know what? That's a really good point, because we, we lament about the lack of information for ourselves, but, but it is true for the the men in our lives, they didn't know what was going on either. And it's, it's not fun for them, and worrying for them, and and, yeah, it would have been nice to just understand what was happening sooner. For sure.
Suzanne
So I think when I was probably 26 or 27 maybe, my OBGYN had indicated that I had a couple of different fibroids. And at that time, it wasn't that big of a deal, like my periods were heavy and I had cramping that was pretty intense some days, but I was able to cope with it.
Becky
And they also, didn't they say at that time, they weren't all that, weren't necessarily all that big, right? And as time went on..
Suzanne
Right, they just continued to grow and…
Becky
Which I had no idea that that did that, right? Did you know that?
Suzanne
No, I had no idea.
Yeah,so that one eventually grew to about a pound. And so at that point, I mean, my OBGYN was a total rock star, and he 100% supported me. And so when I got to that point where I was like, this is impacting my life in a negative way, Tony and I for sure, do not want to have any children. Then he he sat me down, and he said, “Okay, the next opportunity for you then is to have that hysterectomy.” And so my husband and I talked about it, and ultimately decided that that that was the best way to go for me. So, yeah, my OB did, finally, after he talked to my husband and I and we, you know, he was comfortable with how we understood things, and I was the one making the the final decision, and had it scheduled. It's it's a tough surgery to recover from, but the upside of that is that there was a freedom for me that I not experienced while I was still having the full periods every month, and I don't have to worry about it anymore. I don't have to worry about bleeding through everything and being embarrassed and…
Becky
Well, and discomfort and pain.
Suzanne
And discomfort and pain, yeah. But then the other side of that was, you know, we talked about, since I kept my ovaries, that I wouldn't be going through menopause quite as early, but that I would still go through it a little earlier than my peers. But you know, when you don't think about it…
MJM
Suzanne’s experience with fibroids is sadly not that unusual, as about 7 out of 10 women (70%) will be diagnosed with uterine fibroids by the time they reach menopause.[1] Common symptoms include very heavy and painful periods, complications with fertility, and anemia due to excessive bleeding.[1]
If you have fibroids or any other condition connected with your reproductive health, I recommend having a detailed conversation about how to adapt to menopause.
And if you’d like to hear more about living with Fibroids, listen to Sateria’s from season 4.
Many women find that along with a newfound sense of freedom in menopause, comes a large shift in their attitude towards life and their self-image.
Let’s listen to Becky and Suzanne reflect on that.
Suzanne
There's a certain, certain amount, along with the freedom, like you have this, I don't care attitude about what people think about you anymore, or even some of the you know, like the looks, things that I used to worry about, like never leaving the house without any makeup on, that's just not registered for me anymore. There's a freedom in that. And I don't know, I think that's just part of the menopause journey, like there's something that's just changed that has mellowed me out, that I'm not quite so consumed about those sort of things, and the freedom of not having a period anymore is fabulous, even, like I love to travel. [Becky: You’ve had that for a long time] A long, long time. Yeah, yeah, I love to travel, and not having to worry when I'm on vacation that this is going to be unexpected and I hadn't packed anything or even going, you know, when I had to go into the office not being prepared with something like that, there's some real freedom and not worrying about it.
Becky
You know, thinking about the question of being going to the other side, or what we see on that other side once the hormones settle down and all of that. When I think back to what you said about when we were in school, they teach you about puberty and stuff. And this period reminds me of that time of the transition from a child to a woman is a bumpy road, and it's not fun. And then when you get to the other side, you grow into that, the being the woman. And I feel like now I'm in the process of a bumpy road until I'm an old woman, and I don't know how to navigate it, as is how I feel a lot of the times. And I think it's not just the perimenopause, it's all the other stuff. As when I look in the mirror and I see the old lady coming, it's it's weird, it's, it's jarring. I wish I felt better about navigating that process, or understood better how to navigate it, and I know once I get to that other side, it will be better. I absolutely believe that, just like once you get through puberty on the other side of being a woman, it's better. But the process to get there, [Becky: It’s tough.] I don't find to be a whole lot of fun. And also, I remember we talked about the things about yourself that you learn along the way, and some of it's not fun. Like I really, it never dawned on me that I was a vain individual ever but now I find myself going, oh, I don't really like the way I look. And that is weird, and it doesn't feel good. Then you're like, well, I am kind of vain because [Becky: We all are.] I don't like the vision I'm seeing in the mirror. And then you beat yourself up for that. It's like, why are you [Becky: Why do I care?] Right! So that's a weird thing to be experiencing.
Suzanne
We're all turning into our grandma. We can't fight it.
Becky
Just put a little babushka around me, yes, and embrace the Hungarian that's coming out. Yeah.
Becky
Don't you think, though too that. So our mom was born in '46. So growing up at the time period she did. It wasn't as acceptable, necessarily, for women to have a voice right about anything, right? And we were raised in the 70s and 80s, and so that was a very different time period, as far as I mean it, I truly remember all of it being about you can do anything want. You can say whatever you want. You know, it was very a time period of really trying to empower women, right, girls and women. So I wonder if that's a different thing too. You know, she just did not have that right?
Suzanne
Yeah. And then hearing about some of the like, the medical research that has been so centered around men and their bodies, and it's not women and our bodies and we are so different that there really needs to be a focus on that, to help women be able to communicate and learn about what's going on and navigate it.
Midpoint break
MUSIC
MJM
I often reflect on the culture shift that’s happened in relation to women’s health in that period between the Baby Boomers and Generation X. It does feel like attitudes towards openness and discussion around reproductive health underwent a huge change between today’s menopausal women and their moms.
I truly believe that things can only get better for each subsequent generation of women going through menopause.
And this current generation of midlife women have shown more awareness and openness, and aren’t content with keeping quiet. You can see this reflected in the increased attention on menopause in media, at work, and among businesses who are waking up to the millions of mid-life women experiencing menopause.[2]
This is menopause: unmuted where we talk about real women’s menopause stories.
I’m your host Mary Jane Minkin, and if you’d like to listen to other women’s stories about their menopause experiences or get more information about menopause, visit menopauseunmuted.com
I hope that by listening to conversations like Suzanne and Becky’s you might feel inspired to open up and begin a conversation with someone you’re close to. And if you would like to share your own menopause story, I’ve left some information in the show notes on how to get in touch with the production team.
Let’s get back to sisters Becky and Suzanne, who like many women in midlife, started to realize they needed to make a change in their work life.
Suzanne
So for me, there was a lot of, of transition going on at the workplace. I had so many different managers within a short period of time, and they all had different expectations. And I was really at that point, I was working on compliance, and just a small amount of my work was on the sustainability side. And I truly came to understand that I was just doing the job and I was not happy with the role that I had, and seeing that I was going to be stuck in that role forever if I stayed within this organization. And along with the menopause, like not the manager that I had when I left, but one of the managers before that, I was really struggling with now, I can look back and say that it was perimenopause, but she was not giving me the support that I needed as I was, you know, I went from being a top performer to all of a sudden, she was questioning everything that I was doing, because she was a new manager for me, and she was trying to figure me out, and I was trying to figure her out, but then, yeah, so I was a top performer, and then I went to being struggling all the time, and I hadn't changed. My work hadn't changed. It was just this new relationship dynamic. And then that made me, made me rethink everything that I knew about myself when it came to my work, and really made me think, I don't know what I'm doing.
Becky
You mean, you don't know what you're doing as far as what's irritating her? [Suzanne: Yes] Or, what's changed, or what am I doing here? Why am I doing this?
Suzanne
Both. Yeah, really both. I couldn't make her happy. I knew I wasn't happy, and so that really started the ball rolling. I had more managers after that, but it really got me thinking, like I was just here doing the job and I was no longer…
Becky
So sis, let me ask you, just like when we were talking about the the time elapsing, you know, with the the hormones, all that experience, when you look back, how much time elapsed for you in that, in that journey of trying to come to terms with what's happening at work.
Suzanne
I think about two years, and I really pounded the pavement for about a year looking for a different [Becky: I remember that. That was brutal.] Yeah, it was almost like another full-time job looking for something. And, you know, they can't ask you your age when you go through that. But then there was that fear that once they gape me on a video call or gape me face to face, they're going to see that I'm not this kid that just graduated from college. And so with that, you know, along with the age, comes the salary expectations. And, you know, I had really great work experience, but the fear that because of my age, that they were just never going to consider me. And so I just kept turning away, trying to find it, and interviewed multiple places, but nothing seemed to really fit what I wanted to do. I wanted to embrace this new career path, and I wasn't going to settle until I found it. And I mean, thankfully, I did. It took a year and many interviews, but I did, and finding that voice and saying, no, I'm not going to settle for less than this has made all the difference. My mental health is better. I'm not struggling with my choices when it comes to work. I know I'm doing a great job, and I'm getting that feedback, and it just makes me want to do a, continue to do a great job, because I know that I'm being valued again, and I am bringing worth, and I know what I'm talking about, and then you started to look for a new role as well.
Becky
Yeah, I I love being a teacher, but I wasn't, and I was just the last few years of my career were just increasingly difficult. I wasn't feeling the love of being a teacher, not that I didn't love the kids, not that I didn't love the content, but yeah, I just, I was increasingly finding myself feeling like, oh, maybe, maybe I need to find something else to do. [Suzanne: I remember that.] But just, just like you said, I remember thinking, well, I'm in my 50s. Nobody's going to want to hire a woman in her 50s, and I don't even know that that's true, but that's the narrative that was in my head and in your head, that my job was increasingly, yeah, I just saw the things that were happening at the previous school I was at, I just saw that extending into my future, and I wanted a different professional experience, and I really wrestled though with leaving the place, and it's a higher needs school, and I had been there for a long time and truly cared about it.
Suzanne
Right, well, I think as women, we are sort of trained from a young age to take care of everybody else's needs before ourselves. And I think, you know, we had a lot of conversations about that, about your mental health and the value of that, and how much better you, when you feel better, you're able to take care of other people better as well, because you are in a headspace to be able to do it.
Suzanne
Yeah. The thing is, too though you you know, as you take those steps, that there will be people who are very unhappy with you about the fact that you're taking those steps which I know you experienced at your job as well, which is interesting, because our fields are very different, but I guess humanity is not, right. But then, yes, so going to this to a different school has been great. It's made me fall in love with teaching all over again, and just I had the best year I've had in a long time, and then to realize, oh, I didn't actually have to leave the profession of teaching. I can still teach. I just, I just needed to to make a change.
MJM
Are you in midlife and working? If so, how do you feel about your career at this age, do you still feel professionally valuable? I know I do, and I intend to keep practicing and teaching for a good while longer, but attitudes towards working life are so varied.
I’ve heard a lot of women share Suzanne and Becky’s concerns about becoming side-lined in favor or younger, less expensive colleagues, but there are women starting businesses, changing direction and making a huge success of it in their fifties and beyond.
If you’re feeling stuck or lacking confidence, why not consider some networking opportunities online?
You may find free career information from refreshing a resume to business skills and modern interview techniques.
But we mustn’t forget the importance of taking care of our physical and mental health.
Let’s listen to how Becky and Suzanne are doing this.
Becky
My sister and I have talked quite a bit about how we want to be able to be functioning old ladies like when we are in our 70s. We want to be able to still move around, right. And frank - I mean, look, that's coming fast, right? And we owe it to our old lady selves to take care of ourselves now, because what we do now impacts that person in the future.
Suzanne
Right. For both of us, we've been pretty active for a number of years, yeah, but for myself, I've really, within probably the last year, focused more on the weight training side of things, because of some of the the articles and that I've read about going through menopause, and how you know it helps with your bone strength and helps you in your your older stage to have the muscle flexibility. And so seeing that in my at my age, and being able to go and do the the weightlifting has made a difference. And I think that can be intimidating for some women to go and do some free weights, but just, you know, find someone that can help you out, or find a resource. And it's, yeah, it's made a big difference for me.
Becky
Yeah, I do a mix. I do both cardio and I do strength training, because I I just feel better after both. But so it's, it's, there's the immediacy of, let's face it, there are days when I'm like, I just don't feel like doing that, right, but once I'm in it right, at least 10 to 15 minutes into it. Yes, and I've gone through the mental battle of arguing with myself about it, I always do feel really good. [Suzanne: Yeah, me too] And I feel great afterward, and again, I just also believe each time we're putting deposits into that bank so that when we, you know, hopefully, reach an old age, we can run around with the best of them.
Suzanne
Right. Yeah, absolutely. So, you know, I think along with the physical exercise, I have made it a priority during my day that when I'm done with work that my husband knows that I'm going to go downstairs and I'm going to do my workout and then we'll have dinner. That's just the order of things. So, I've made it an effort to put myself in front of everything. I mean, he knows where the kitchen is if he's hungry, he can figure it out. And that also gives me that mental break too, that for that, that period of time I am downstairs, I'm taking care of myself, I'm doing the cardio, or I'm lifting the weights, and seeing my [my] body respond to that and how good I feel afterwards, helps the mental side, because now, you know, I'm stronger after the session. I feel better about myself. And the days that I don't go exercise, then I, you know, I might feel a little dumpier or just not as motivated. So, that that does help with the mental side, for sure.
Becky
It does really help clear your mind and make you feel more relaxed and just more peaceful, right? You know, when have you ever noticed, like times you're feeling more revved up or anxious or fearful if you just do some form of, I mean, even if it's as simple as walking on the block with the dogs, right? You just feel better afterward.
Suzanne
Yeah, that anxiety level comes down and yeah, yeah.
MJM
We’ve spoken a lot about the value of exercise on menopause: unmuted – particularly strength training. In fact, we have a whole episode on that subject, just take a listen to our season 3 bonus episode: A Strong Menopause.
In addition to the well-documented health benefits of exercise, women can also find a community of support through fitness.
I like to sweat it out on my own in the gym, but there are other options, whether it’s a team sport, a walking group or a quiet yoga class.
And of course, mental and emotional health goes hand in hand with our physical health – it’s something that Suzanne and Becky have been thinking about
Suzanne
And then the other side of mental health too is just being able to take that time for yourself, that not everyone [Becky: And know that it's okay] and know that it's okay, that's that's a big struggle for women, that it's okay to say, if you want me to be the best me, and I want to be the best me I need this time, you know, I've recently started solo traveling, and that's been, you know, I love my husband to pieces, but it's so freeing to be able to get on a plane and not have to worry about anyone else.
Becky
Well and the reality is, he doesn't want to go. [Suzanne: Right!] He doesn't want to do it. And you do. So, then what do you do? Do you go? Well, he doesn't want to go, so [Suzanne: I'm not staying home.] I'm not going to do it either. No, right, right, yeah. And so, then there's all kinds of levels of freedom going on there.
Suzanne
Right? Yeah, our relationship isn't jeopardized because I want to go see a part of the world that he has no interest in.
Becky
Well, it's also a mental struggle to get to that point, where you go, it's okay that I go do this.
Suzanne
Oh, absolutely, absolutely, getting over feeling like you're selfish for taking this time out for yourself and [Becky: Right? Or I shouldn't do that..] yeah or spending the money.
Becky
Yeah, all of it. When you think about what you expressed about the with the travel and making the decision to do that on your own. It makes me think about the fact that when we were young women in our 20s and 30s, we wouldn't have done that. [Suzanne: No.] You wouldn't have done that. There's there's things I do now that I wouldn't have because you felt that pressure as a young woman to try to please [Yes] the man. [Right.] Right?
Suzanne
Yeah, absolutely, yeah. And I think as we've gotten older too, like, our relationship as sisters has gotten stronger. [Becky: Oh yeah.] You know, we when we were in our 20s, we didn't talk about some of the things that we talk about now. And [Oh, for sure] yeah, going through this journey well. [And, yeah, oh, go ahead, I’m sorry]. I was just the, going through this journey together has been freeing for us, too, and brought depth to the relationship that we're able to say, oh, look what's happening. How are you feeling?
Becky
Yeah, that's true. That is such a cool thing about being older, isn't it? And, and when you're young, you're just, there's so many things you're busy with all the time, it doesn't dawn on you, as much to you know, stop and smell the roses as the old adage goes, right. But as you age, it does, and then you really think about, where do I want my time to be spent? [Suzanne: Yes, so it’s going quick] Yeah. And so consequently, we do spend way more time together in our 50s [Right.] 40s and 50s [Yeah, absolutely] than when we were in our 20s and 30s, yeah, yeah.
MUSIC STING
Suzanne
I would say to my my younger self, that you need to be your own advocate, that that was such a struggle for me for a long time, like worrying about what my actions were were going to impact somebody else, or how they were going to perceive me. And then in my own struggles, I wasn't able to say, Hey, I I need help. But use your voice and use it as often as you need to, until somebody listens to you.
Becky
I think I would say to my younger self, who you really are is really okay. [Suzanne: Yes, that too.] You don't have to pretend to be anything other than who you are, and the people that will love you for that will be in your life, and the people who don't will not. And that is all okay.
MJM
Absolutely! I so agree with Suzanne and Becky here. They gave us so many great points to reflect on, we heard about the importance of understanding what you need and want – whether that’s about your health, relationships or career. They reminded us that change is not only possible, but inspiring and energizing at this stage of life. But the thing that really shone through for me, was how much support, love and empathy there is between Becky and Suzanne.
Finding those people in life that you can lean on, trust and talk with is invaluable. Whether that person is family or a friend, I want to encourage you to reach out to ask for support when you need it. Just having someone that will listen can make such a difference.
I want to extend my thanks and best wishes to them both and I hope they enjoy lots of fun walks with that new puppy!
I’m Mary Jane Minkin, and thanks for listening.
I’ll be back with another menopause story very soon, but in the meantime, you can check out our show notes at menopauseunmuted.com – that’s also where you’ll find details of how to get in touch if you’d like to share your story with our listeners.
Before I go, I’d just like to say: don’t suffer in silence. Don’t worry about speaking up about your menopause.
Women should be able to discuss menopause with their health care providers. A woman can speak out about menopause with her OB/GYN, primary care provider, or nurse practitioner. There are even designated menopause practitioners that a woman can visit.
Special thanks to the Women's Health team at Pfizer and to Studio Health for producing this series.
Talk soon.
[Disclaimer] This podcast is provided for educational purposes only and is not intended to replace discussions with a healthcare provider. Please speak with your healthcare provider regarding any health questions. The opinions expressed in this podcast are the opinions of the individuals recorded, and not necessarily opinions endorsed by Pfizer. The women in this podcast are participating voluntarily and have not been compensated for their appearance. The host has been compensated by Pfizer. The podcast is only intended for residents of the United States.
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References